WCL TALK

jdriggers · Joined: 19 Feb 2008 Posts: 3

What are the boards thoughts on the team concept? Do you think it is working? When I read the board I never see "man team A beat the crap out of team B" It is always talk of the individual fighters. Perosnally I don't think it works. You have a bunch of guys who live in different parts of the contry who fly in a few days before an event and call themselves a team. They don't train together they don't even live in the cities that they represent. In a way it is a fake team. The NFL and the NBA the athletes are from different parts of the country but they live in the city their team is from. To truly be embrassed by the community they have to be a part of that commuity. Not in name only. NFL players do appearances in the community in various charity and civic events.
Personally, the one round thing was exciting at first. But now it is rather boring to me. I would like to see how the fight would unfold over a couple of rounds. On any given day any given fighter can beat the other in one round but how about over a few rounds? That would involved strategy. I was just watching the replay of Leonard vs. hearns. Hearns dominated the first few rounds but Leonard showed his championship heart and figured out his opponent and won the fight. I would love to see these guys make corrections and show endurance.

Just my thoughts. Laughing

Valiss · Joined: 05 Jan 2007 Posts: 260 Location: Earth

I'm not sure you are asking the correct question because I think you've changed the definition of "team" in your post. You imply that to be a team you must live near each other and do 'local' events and the like. I don't agree: a team is just a bunch of people competing in a sport and that happen to be on the same side. Whether people live near each other or not does not affect their status as a "team."

That said, having players that live far apart will certainly impact them in terms of how they work as a team. But so what? As you implied, fighting sports are inherently individual. I find myself following fighters, not teams - but that's because that's how I'm used to seeing it. But what disadvantages do teams get by not training together? What game strategy can they work on together that they can't do in their own gym? Nothing comes to mind because you are all alone when you fight.

The WCL's hurdle will be to overcome the concept that fighting is an 'individual sport' and try to re-brand it as a 'team sport' – no easy task. The IFL is exploring this concept as well. The seemingly fundamental flaw in this is that typically, when you are on a team, you are playing with your team at the same time. I don't expect Shaq be a one-man team and slam dunk on his own in each game; rather he gets help in-game form his teammates as they rebound and pass the ball to him. You can't get team help in team fighting.

The idea of 'team' fighting in the mainstream is still pretty new and I think if the WCL (or IFL for that matter) is going to survive, they will have to change how we think of fighting as a sport. They will need a couple of seasons to rework rules, teams, tourneys, (as they appear to be doing) but honestly, as long as they can put butts in the seats, I can see it finding its niche. Also, getting a couple of big name fighters to come in would help as well, even if they are a bit past their prime – but that’s just marketing. I certainly have been entertained by it, and even though I'm not totally sold on the team concept as well, I'm enjoying it now and will continue to give it room on my DVR.
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-Valiss

THEIRISHPRIDE · Joined: 28 Sep 2007 Posts: 20

Well spoken response, which shows a very good understanding of business and the fight game, which seemingly enough go hand in hand as is. Honestly if we keep acquiring knowledgable fans such as yourself, this league I believe stands a fighting chance. And I think I speak for all of us in the WCL thanks for being in our corner, and we will all do our best to keep you entertained with high octane full throttle action. Irish out.

flypaper · Joined: 29 Feb 2008 Posts: 5 Location: Leesburg, Virginia

Hello everyone,

I am new to this board, but have been a huge fan of WCL since last year when I discovered it. I cannot get enough of it to begin with, and hope as time goes on it expands into many more teams, and cities. PLEASE LEAVE IT ONLY ONE ROUND.....this is by far the best 3 minutes of FURY you can find. Any longer and I think the spark would dim, and we would see the long drawn out fights like on WFC ( Dont get me wrong..I like WFC but the grappling gets boring). As the LA Cop John McCarthy says ...lets get it on!!!!!!!!

flypaper · Joined: 29 Feb 2008 Posts: 5 Location: Leesburg, Virginia

UFC of course

Valiss · Joined: 05 Jan 2007 Posts: 260 Location: Earth

Irish Pride, thanks for the kind words man. I've enjoyed the WCL thus far and I'm glad to see it growing and evolving. There are certainly some more adjustments that could be made, but compared to last season the shows look five fold better. Everything from the ring with the logo to the production value on Versus Network is superior to last year. And of course, the fights are getting more exciting as the teams get refined and fighters join. I like how the WCL is growing its own champions from unknown fighters, though I do wish that they would work to grab some seasoned fighters to just bring some additional attention to the league. When I talk to almost anyone in the MMA world about the WCL, if they have heard of it, they recall Pete Spratt fighting in the league; he's not a 'huge' name (but certainly known). My point is that I think the WCL needs a good mix of seasoned fighters with some name recognition, as well as champions that cut their teeth in this league to really promote it. As far as I’m concerned, anything that gets MMA and combat sports into the mainstream (in a positive light) is worth supporting.

And speaking of following individual players, I've been a huge fan since your first fight against Luis Nazario - you really put the hurt to him that night! Perhaps one of these days I can get you to autograph some WCL merchandise for us.

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-Valiss

Beat · Joined: 20 Jan 2008 Posts: 19

The individuality of the fight game is the biggest hurdle it faces for obvious reasons. I find that in many cases, team fight leagues (the IFL and the WCL) the team members are viewed as inferior to the individual fighters, and reluctance to showcase the individual (such as in an idea Chuck Norris quickly shot down, a Grand Prix like the IFL had) in a spotlight is viewed as having individuals that aren't worth as much alone.

Ex- Right now- The three top 155lb/70kb kickboxers in the world, according to most, are Andy Souwer, Buakaw Por Pramuk, and Yodsaenklai Fairtex. Most combat sport pundits right now agree that if you put any of these three against any 155lber in the World Combat League, the fight would not last past the first minute before the WCL fighter was floored. Are they that good compared to the fighters of the WCL? Maybe, maybe not. But as individuals highlighted by individual achievements (Yod being the Lumpinee stadium champion and WBC MT champion, Souwer as Shootboxing's king, and Buakaw as one of K-1's top fighters), the three are given an aura of importance that reflects far greater than a team championship. So any pundit worth his salt would assume a bout between Thunderkick Longacre and Yodseaneki Fairtex would be a brutal one-sided massacre, not because of any lack of talent on Longacre's part, but because he's viewed as a team member, not an individual.

What the WCL may need to do is to start highlighting these individuals. Put on a superfight or two like the IFL does. Maybe the WCL should start sending their all-stars to challenge the best in K-1 and gain other kickboxing titles. To show a team format works, you need to show that the team has members that can stand alone, but are even greater together.

wcllover · Joined: 21 Jan 2008 Posts: 117 Location: Oklahoma

I think that the team concept will survive, but i think that its the lack of teams that will prove to be the WCL's biggest down fall. When you are new to the WCL and watching the fights for the first time, they are awesome and you cant get enough. Then the next year is exciting because you cant wait to see the rematches. But then next year they fight again and again and again. You watch the same 4 teams per conference fight all the time. I just hope they are trying to add new teams and add them soon. we watched tx and ok fight twice back to back. why did they have LA fight denver in a conference playoff knowing that it would be a thrashing? Why didnt they fight texas or oklahoma? why would you put a number 1 rank team against a number 4 ranked team when there are only 4 teams in the conference. Was there a reason for it or did they want it to be one sided? Me personally i will get bored watching the same fighters fight season after season. The only way to keep they could keep it interesting would be to bring in new fighters each season. But who do they pick to replace. I also think that some of the alternates outshine the starters. I dont know i dont really understand the whole thing. But i do like to watch the fights and i have followed it around like a little groupie and i dont see myself stopping anytime soon. But i can only speak for myself
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wcllover

jmm1 · Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject:

LA had the best regular season record in the Western Conference, so they earned the right to fight the team with the worst record in the first round of the playoffs (Denver). Oklahoma fought Texas because they were the second and third seeds. This is how playoffs work in most sports.

I love the team concept. One of the top advantages of it is that it allows you to root for you favorite fighters, but also helps you pick a fighter to root for if you do not feel passionately about either fighter, this keeps the events entertaining down to the last fight.

Beat · Joined: 20 Jan 2008 Posts: 19

[quote="wcllover"]I think that the team concept will survive, but i think that its the lack of teams that will prove to be the WCL's biggest down fall. When you are new to the WCL and watching the fights for the first time, they are awesome and you cant get enough. Then the next year is exciting because you cant wait to see the rematches. But then next year they fight again and again and again. You watch the same 4 teams per conference fight all the time. I just hope they are trying to add new teams and add them soon. we watched tx and ok fight twice back to back. why did they have LA fight denver in a conference playoff knowing that it would be a thrashing? Why didnt they fight texas or oklahoma? why would you put a number 1 rank team against a number 4 ranked team when there are only 4 teams in the conference. Was there a reason for it or did they want it to be one sided? Me personally i will get bored watching the same fighters fight season after season. The only way to keep they could keep it interesting would be to bring in new fighters each season. But who do they pick to replace. I also think that some of the alternates outshine the starters. I dont know i dont really understand the whole thing. But i do like to watch the fights and i have followed it around like a little groupie and i dont see myself stopping anytime soon. But i can only speak for myself[/quote]

There's another point. Teams need slots to be filled. And in order to do that, in a contact sport, you need talent. Lots and lots of talent. Unless you can find a lot, you'll end up with one-sided matches that look like this.

[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/hmbloodmoney/souwerxi8.gif[/img]

Shep · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 11

Beat, do you know that Remmy Bonnell is in the WCL? I saw him beat up on Duane Ludwig pretty easily. I think he could compet with those guys.

COOK · Joined: 05 May 2007 Posts: 26 Location: OKLAHOMA

[quote="Beat"]
Ex- Right now- The three top 155lb/70kb kickboxers in the world, according to most, are Andy Souwer, Buakaw Por Pramuk, and Yodsaenklai Fairtex. Most combat sport pundits right now agree that if you put any of these three against any 155lber in the World Combat League, the fight would not last past the first minute before the WCL fighter was floored. .[/quote]

[b]that's what the experts said would happen to raymond daniels [the point fighter] when he entered wcl.[/b]

i believe most of those "experts" are still eating crow every time daniels and bourelly dance to the combatzone.

i too tho, believe the 3 fighters you mentioned are the best in the world. i'd love to see them in wcl, one 3 minute round all out! wow!!