WCL TALK

jmm1 · Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject: Raymond Daniels MMA debut

Raymond Daniels lost by rear naked choke submission in the 2nd round against Metcalfe at Strikeforce in San Jose. He looked very uncomfortable with the mma style, the fight was on the ground the whole time.

Gonendunit · Joined: 27 Jun 2008 Posts: 2

He didn't just lose... he got the snot whipped out of him. It was hysterical. I've been waiting to see one of these WCL bums in a real fight. Well... it wasn't much of a fight. Maybe he needed more time on the Total Gym. He fought like Chuck Norris acts.

jmm1 · Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject:

Plain and simple, Raymond was not ready for this fight. He is a world-class striker, but his ground game is nowhere near the level it needs to be for MMA. I have no idea why Daniels' promoters and coaches would get him in a mess like that...

Penman · Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Posts: 13

Ray is a class act , but a loss is a loss. His MMA debut is no different from the Thai boxers who tried their hand in the WCL, but found their tools limited by the uber restrictive rules. A go- getter such as Raymond will live and learn , and adapt accordingly.

Pittboss · Joined: 05 May 2008 Posts: 45

He'll learn...the ground game is a little different. But in my opinion that was a bad match up. His manager should have researched Matclif. He is a serious dude...watch video on youtube you'll see

Penman · Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Posts: 13

The ground game is more than a little different, it may as well be another reality. I'm being as polite as I can about Raymond out of respect , but his hype has just been knocked down a notch. He can remain in the tiny universe of WCL as the undefeated champion , or humbly accept his loss and progress toward becoming a truly well rounded MMA fighter.

On a side note , the WCL is not MMA, will never be MMA, and shouldn't be advertised as such. We still need gold old fashioned kickboxing filled with talented fighters who don't neccessarily want to become ground and pounders. All of the full contact fighting sports have their rightful place and fans who want more.

Penman · Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Posts: 13

For those who have yet to watch the fight , it is posted on Youtube , at least for now.

Valiss · Joined: 05 Jan 2007 Posts: 260 Location: Earth

Yes, I think Raymond is a great striker, but he was unprepared for the groundwork in MMA. If he's willing to go on, I hope he takes some lessons from this fight and trains his ground skills for a year or so. Then he could come back and give it another shot. As I said, his striking is great, but he didn't even get a chance to throw a single kick. However, I think we'll hear from him again...
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-Valiss

Penman · Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Posts: 13

I blame the entire mismatch upon Raymond's management. The more insightful MMA newcomers choose Tank Abbot for their first win these days. Razz

the210 · Joined: 23 Jan 2007 Posts: 137

I watched this one on youtube and it was bad. All the hype that he was the best in the WCL (which he is without question) and in sport karate, and he laid an egg. He never looked comfortable and never looked like he had a chance of winning. Shame on his training and management staff, he was not ready for this fight, and they should have told Raymond that. A loss like that does not reflect well on the WCL or sport karate. Cannot wait to see Raymond back as his dominant self in the WCL...

Beat · Joined: 20 Jan 2008 Posts: 19

If Raymond Daniels is the best of what the WCL can do outside the combat zone, than WCL and Combat Martial arts, quite simply, ARE DOOMED. Chuck's fighters obviously can't hang with MMA fighters, Muay Thai fighters, Shootboxers, international kickboxers, K-1 fighters, etc, etc.

The only way for upstart leagues like the WCL to survive is to prove dominance against other styles. Ask Ceasar Takashi as the head of Shootboxing. When he started that org, Shootboxers fought just about anybody and everybody. Of course, Raymond Daniels is no Andy Souwer.

Valiss · Joined: 05 Jan 2007 Posts: 260 Location: Earth

How can you compare the WCL to MMA? The WCL is a striking org not a MMA org. They are two different things. Most MMA guys would do horribly in a pure striking competition against seasoned pro's, just as Daniels lost to a seasoned MMA guy. Kickboxing is based in striking and MMA is based in wrestling, pure an simple. Very different skills are needed for each. As I said before, if Raymond chooses to do more MMA he will need serious focus on his ground game with some top notch trainers (i.e. American Top Team). I wish him luck with whatever he chooses to do next!
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-Valiss

Pittboss · Joined: 05 May 2008 Posts: 45

Seventh7th · Joined: 14 May 2008 Posts: 8

This fight was great for up and coming wcl fighters. They now see that Raymond can be beat and that is a confidence builder, for example Mike Tyson and Buster Dougles. Every fighter in boxing was afraid of Tyson until he got Knocked out by Dougles. Then all of a sudden nobody was afraid of him, because they saw him get BANGED!!! This will be the same thing for Raymond. Also Raymond cant allow this bad lose to effect him. It is a known fact when an undefeated fight gets beat, it can have a lasting effect on that fighter. I hope he keeps his mind right.

:NoLimit: · Joined: 29 Jun 2008 Posts: 4

this was raymonds first big loss in a long time an he did take it like a champion. I assure you that he wont let this happen again he knew his ground game wasnt ready but he l wanted to see wear he was to know what he needed to work on and he WILL be back in the cage after hes finish with his training
raymond is a combat martial artist dont forget it next year when all the mma fighters are saying how much they like him and every other style of fighter sucks

Just Do are you'll never know your true limits
marc