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bigj
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 253
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 Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: |
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not only do I think Ray didnt prepared well enough in his ground game i agree. he fought a bad fight perfect storm i guess it happens. I thought for sure we'd see the jump spinning heel when metcalf went high to grab him... What can you say.
Raymond has decided to do MMA so I'm behind him 100%. having said that I don't like the sport and would have rather seen him go the boxing route. last fri night was just bad all around. i've seen him box and he'd been another tommy hearns with the ability to slip punches like Ali. Just no connections on that route and at 28 he thought MMA would be a faster rouite to make some big money.
In the end I still think WCL is the ticket there will be a market for individual competition. If chuck hangs in there and we're patience. This can work on a team and individual level |
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Penman
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: |
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I'm in no way detracting from the WCL, being an ardent fan of the old school 70s/early 80s kickboxing. I'd like to see it become truly international , with a more diverse stable of teams from all corners of the globe. For now it's only the WORLD Combat League in name only , being mostly an American product.
In contrast Pro MMA has exploded , thanks in no small part to its truly international stable of fighters who have become household names , massive marketing , notoriety , and the money involved. So far the WCL hasn't reached that level of exposure , as if the investors consider it a gamble and choose not to advertise it more aggressively. |
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Beat
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| So you don't like MMA, call it gay, etc. Well it seems no different from the WCL's advertising where they consistently mock groundfighting. Therefore, when Raymond Daniels, as a representative of the WCL loses a fight, MMA fans call it karma. |
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Penman
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Beat, kep you day job if you have one. You're beating on a dead horse. |
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Valiss
Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Posts: 260
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Beat wrote: | | So you don't like MMA, call it gay, etc. Well it seems no different from the WCL's advertising where they consistently mock groundfighting. Therefore, when Raymond Daniels, as a representative of the WCL loses a fight, MMA fans call it karma. |
I might have missed another post, but please show me where the WCL has mocked groundfighting. Thanks!
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-Valiss |
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Cheatwood
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 4
Location: Moore, Oklahoma
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| I don't think anyone is calling mma gay, just you beat |
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Beat
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Cheatwood"]I don't think anyone is calling mma gay, just you beat[/quote]
You missed the post by bigj.
Dead horse is dead. |
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WhiteCastle
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Pittboss wrote: | | He'll learn...the ground game is a little different. But in my opinion that was a bad match up. His manager should have researched Matclif. He is a serious dude...watch video on youtube you'll see |
You guys are acting like Metcalf is actually good. He is a mediocre fighter, his record is 9-4, and thats counting the "fight" with Daniels. 13 fights is not a lot either, so Metcalf is not a seasoned vet.
| bigj wrote: | look beat is a fantasy warrior who thinks that mma is the real thing evidently or closer to the real thing which is hilarious. MMA is a step up from college wrestling and if they take the piss poor stand up out of it. it would never survive. I'll take the Ray over the Iceman anyday in a stand up only match.
It's obvious that beat can't separate style from athleticism.
using beats logic MMA fighters are piss poor athletes whose stand up got them killed so they had to learn to grappling and all that other butt huggin they do looking for submission. most stand up fighters have enough sense to not want to swap sweat with some guy who may not be to sure about their masculinity. I mean you have to wonder why a guy would take up a sport where your huggin other guys is the object. Stand up ..stay out of the way ..take down grab and hug... not enough male attention growing up I suppose.
Ray is a great athlete that will be great at whatever he applies himself to. The tragedy isn't that Ray took the fight or took the fight and lost.. but stand up isn't quite at a place where it can support it's warriors. I think the WCL can do that. Quite frankly if the money was there you'd see MMA fighters crossing over believing that their skills were adequate enough to handle someone like Ray and what happened to Ray would happen to them except for the fact the body swap sweat choke out, would be a flat on your back knockout. |
I've seen Daniels fight, and I think if he tried all those spinning kicks and crap he would have his bum handed to him. He would be knocked out cold.
Look up Urijah Faber, he is much more athletic than Daniels, and he doesn't dance around all over the place, or do unnecessary moves. MMA fighters are some of the most conditioned in the world. They do unorthodox workouts to build their strength, not sit on the "total gym" all day.
A lot of MMA fighters would kill WCL fighters in stand up. Watch Lyoto Machida's stand up, it's all based on countering his opponents moves. Which worked particularly well against Tito Ortiz, who is much stronger than him. And there was almost no ground fighting in that match.
Just because people do ground work, doesn't mean they are gay. Daniels can't do the crap he does in WCL because in MMA, real MMA, people are going to take advantage of that. If you open yourself up like that, your opponent is going to shoot for the takedown, and most likely get it. Watch UFC 1, and 2, Royce Gracie won both of those tournaments, against mainly strikers.
I'm glad Daniels got beat. He should go back to the WCL, but if he continues with MMA, trains and improves his skill, and decides to fight another day, my respect for him will sky rocket. |
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Seventh7th
Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree, all because Raymond got his A$$ kicked does not mean that every fighter in the WCL would in a MMA match. I do believe Raymond is a smart fighter but he was not so smart in this case. A smart fighter would not have taken this fight UNPREPARED. It is true Raymond did step out of his comfort zone but that does not mean he should have at this time, he should have waited!!! I believe this was a Raymond Daniels EGO TRIP that made him think he could go in the ring UNPREPARED and fight a fighter with a record of 13 professional MMA fights. Raymond believes he is the best and he should believe that but (and this goes out to Raymond) the best is always PREPARED!!! |
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chesterbound01
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Why compare things so much. I enjoy all forms of combat boxing, kickboxing, mma, grappling and anything else. All equally entertaining in their own way. I prefer MMA and Wrestling because my background is in wrestling. My instructer prefers WCL and Kickboxing because he blackbelt with the ATA. Daniels is a great fighter, may be not a great MMA fighter, or a great grappler, but that is the beauty of the fight world you can either find what your good at or try and continue to grow and learn to get better at what you are not great at. |
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Pittboss
Joined: 05 May 2008
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="WhiteCastle"] | Pittboss wrote: | | He'll learn...the ground game is a little different. But in my opinion that was a bad match up. His manager should have researched Matclif. He is a serious dude...watch video on youtube you'll see |
You guys are acting like Metcalf is actually good. He is a mediocre fighter, his record is 9-4, and thats counting the "fight" with Daniels. 13 fights is not a lot either, so Metcalf is not a seasoned vet.
13 MMA fights is alot more than 0. Look at Kimbo and Cung Le. There first 2-3 fights were against people who had either losing records or only 2-3 fights. Also there managers got them fights with opponents who fought standing up. But at least Kimbo and Cung Le learned some ground game before their MMA debut. |
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WhiteCastle
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| bigj wrote: | | I thought for sure we'd see the jump spinning heel when metcalf went high to grab him... What can you say. |
"It's really about fighting, it's not about you throwing your pretty kicks and thinking you got some death-touch, it's reality. And reality for most of the people who fought Royce Gracie in the early days of the UFC was getting choked!" - Joe Rogan |
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Lawson
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 15
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:37 am Post subject: |
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a good stand up fighter can learn how to defend takedowns and submissions and be able to do it well in about a year of hard training and committment. at least that's what dean lister and some of his fighters told me, when i worked with them.
a good ground fighter can learn how to strike with his hands, feet and knees and defend against that stuff, but to be able to do it well, it would take much longer than a year. it's just the way it is.
the learning curve for ground fighting is faster than the learning curve for striking. ground fighting is just a littler more intuitive for students i think.
if it takes someone 1 year to start making money doing something (MMA), or takes 3-4 years (minimum amount of time) to start making money doing something (boxing, kickboxing). what do you think fighters will pick?? the money's in MMA. that's why everybody is doing it. |
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COOK
Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 26
Location: OKLAHOMA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| daniels had the balls to get in there. |
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