WCL TALK

shift · Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 14

Anyone have any background on Ray Daniels?

I saw him fight the other night. Lightening speed. He has no guard what so ever, but he manages to not get hit. He keeps moving and covering and distance with blinding speed.
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Valiss · Joined: 05 Jan 2007 Posts: 260 Location: Earth

I know that he comes from a point-fighting background, which would explain all his little tap-like punches that he throws sometimes. Here are some videos of his point-fighting stuff:

Raymond Daniels vs Brian Ruth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6zIMtxFIyY

Raymond Daniels vs. Jason Bourelly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM-jVhJXScE&feature=related

Raymond Daniels Vs. Kim Do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OH9E5X8B3g&feature=related
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bigj · Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 253

ya think of it, he has a ton of ko's with those " little tap like punches"....

shift · Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 14

oh man, point fighting sucks
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bigj · Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 253

Think of it point fighting sucks and it's sucky pointfighters are dominating.. The suckiest of the sucky pointfighters has been drumming your professional combat martial artists with ease to the point your best wonderbread will not return for a rematch.....you keep doggin pointfighting and the point fighters and yet they beat your traditional best with ease I don't get it

STEAMROLLER · Joined: 04 Jan 2007 Posts: 59 Location: Momence, IL

[quote="bigj"]Think of it point fighting sucks and it's sucky pointfighters are dominating.. The suckiest of the sucky pointfighters has been drumming your professional combat martial artists with ease to the point your best wonderbread will not return for a rematch.....you keep doggin pointfighting and the point fighters and yet they beat your traditional best with ease I don't get it[/quote]

Actually bigJack, only a few point fighter are doing well. Lots of them have been weeded out. It was a team of Kickboxers/Boxers that were crowned Champs last year. LA wasn't even in the Championship match. They are doing very well this year. The ones that are dominating their divisions are great point fighters! Raymond is super fast, and is definetly a good full-contact fighter. He gets better and better. Jason has impressed me the most, and improved the most. He brings the fight constantly to his opponent. I also think Jack Felton, your son, looked great against Longacre. He ran too much in San Antonio. He needs to run less and fight more, he can do that. He proved it against Longacre. He has to get more used of being hit. This takes time Sir. His speed and timing is very good. The LA Team is better this year than last year, Jason has added a lot to the team also. This is my opionion! So you know, I started in Point, moved into Full-contact, then Leg-kick, then Muay Thai. I love all Martial Arts!

Steamroller out!
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bigj · Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 253

I don't like the way point ie tournament fighting has gone. I'm it's biggest critic. however to say that point fighters timing is suspect to any kickboxer is funny. That's like saying that point fighters sit on their punches for more power better than the kickboxers.

'there are a few more that could do this but for reasons I don't want to go into here, won't.

Point fighting will still develop timing and distance better than the other trades. it doesn't take much to go from top and bottom of the foot, back fist to heal and ball of the foot and closed fist.... by the way you people dog the back fist the point fighters do but just accept the boxers jab....a back fist is about as likely to knock somebody out as a boxers jab.

bigj · Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 253

As far as jack goes thanks for the complement and critque. his biggest problem is weighing in at 143. He hasn't got the weight thing down yet. he will alway's circle to cut an angle, and he has got quite a good chin. he dropped his guard on a break and got caught with a good one and went on instinct to stay in the match.

Ray and jack weren't in the Wcl the first match it was aobut the 3rd match when jack and donald got in Ray the second I think or it would have been LA last year

jmm1 · Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject:

Steamroller,

The LA team lost in the first (Dallas) match, but they had a completely different team (this made them ineligible for the championship). If they had the same team from the beginning, I believe (just my opinion) that the point fighters would have won the whole thing last year.

It is amazing the heat that pointfighters take on these boards (not from Steamroller, just a general observation), yet they just keep winning. The two winningest fighters in the short history of the WCL are point backgrounds (Daniels and Bourelly). Jack Felton is an up and coming star with a point background. I just do not see why people are so quick to put down guys with a pointfighting background when their results have been good.

Valiss · Joined: 05 Jan 2007 Posts: 260 Location: Earth

Personally, I have nothing against point fighters. However, based on my experience, they aren't always the best full contact fighters, it just depends on the person; some transition better than others. The techniques and strategies that point fighters use to score points isn't really the same strategy that full contact fighters might use to win a match.

To that end I'd say that Raymond Daniels has transitioned very well. Is he perfect? Absolutely not. I take issue with some of his fighting including his follow-up, some of his leaping/jumping strikes, etc. But he has made a lot of progress and based on the 1 fight I have seen so far this season, he is continuing to improve over last season and stands to remain undefeated. I look forward to his upcoming matches.
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bigj · Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 253

I'm old enough and from Louisville to remember all the bs Ali took over the style he brought into the ring. he wasn't going to get hit ..the whole "pretty thing..It took awhile before anybody appreciated anything other than the slugfest in the middle of the ring. In the end, it was ali's style not the rockem sockem robots that wowed the world.

shift · Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 14

point fighting does develop timing and distancing better than other rules. But it also promotes a very loose guard. That's pretty much the biggest thing I can't get behind. This is why Jason B got knocked out easily by one of his opponents last year.

I also agree we you on the transition from point to full contact. fact is that only a hand full of point fighters can transition well into full contact. I also must enlighten people about mistaking the average kickboxer for a good kickboxer or muay thai artist.

It always boils down to the fighter. Pete Spratt is an example of a good Kickboxer /muay thai fighter. But there are several poor muay thai fighters in WCL.

Me not liking point fighting has nothing to do with their performance in full contact fighting. It has to do with the lack of guard mentality that is prevalent.
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bigj · Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 253

ali defied traditional tought when he fought with his guard down and loose. all the pointfighters know their distance, remember their game was not to be TOUCHED much less hit. NO! Jason lost his first match due to poor conditioning not a loose guard. he was running out of gas when he got hit. ..

The loose gurad may have hurt Jack more than any of the other point fighters. Pointfighters fight with a loose gurad since they are always moving and rely on slipping punches and kicks. Jack was up on the red, the ref was calling break, he had no where to go and he didn't cover up (even dropped what was a loose guard) and got nailed. He'll learn.....(the fact that this kid got in a good shot due to Jack's inexperience make s him somehow a canidate to knock out thomas is beyond me)

there are a lot of pointfighters that could make the transition but don't ..they think it's not worth the money or just don't want to train that hard. but there worst of the pointfighters would still clean a Randy Pogue type fighters clock.

bottom line pointfighters will always have better timing and distance and the boxers/kickboxers will always sit on their punches better due to the inherent style of fighting. .. ie pointfighters will take their fight to the point of having to finish their opponent off and have trouble and the kickboxers will have problems getting the pointfighters to the point they can finish them off.

fighter1982 · Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 64 Location: Nebraska

U keep comparing daniels to ali. He doesn't come close although he does try to act like him. Also my friend, Jason got his arse handed to him when he got ko'ed or what they call a tko. You can admit it. It wasn't cause of poor conditioning, cause he was beating the guy and the guy got a luck shot in and kept coming.

bigj · Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 253

no, I know Jason it wasn't a lucky shot on jason it was a good shot on a fighter that was running out of gas, that left himself open and that was the last time anybody laid a glove on Jason. Jason has always been the best all around athelete in sport karate., in my opinion and a fine young man. the first time with this 3 min all out fighting was a new thing for us and on that second round Jason got sloppy not from lack of anything but oxygen.,